WoW servers and the new generation of server owners

[DarkAngel]

What has happend?
Back in the days people knew, that nothing were free. Now people expect help and when they do not get it, they speak of it as if people are evil!
What has happend to fixing problems yourself?
What has happend to people's self-respect?
What has happend to doing the dirty work, not handing it to others?
I am getting sick and tired of people wanting to create a WoW server yet not even being able to search for the basics? I mean, seriously, how can people think that:

• when they possess no skills related to WoW emulation
• when they do not have money to put into the project
• when they cannot bring anything to the table themselves
• when they need help for the very very basics
• when they have extreme trouble understanding how Emulation works, how the market is
• when they literally need people to tell them exactly what to do

that they can ever create a WoW server, or any other computer related project for that matter...
Fact is that when you cannot do something, you either: learn how to do it or pay someone else to do it for you.
Unless of course you have extremely generous friends or know of a forum that is willing to spend countless hours fixing your ....
Now I am in no way an angel when it comes to all this but atleast I expect to work my ass off. At least I Fing try to fix my own problems before I dare hold them over others.

I also respect that some people need help and that sharing is caring but for god's sake, at least give proper information when asking for help! And atleast try first.

I do not know whether this only applies to the new generation of server owners or to the major emulation population but something is wrong!

 

[Tommy]

It happened when people started to turn to TrinityCore. About the laziness, well, kids aren't taught well these days.

P.S: You never said the thread was going to be about WoW.

 

[Foereaper]

The problem is how people have been spoon fed. Back when the scene was "young" you had to learn shit yourself. Everyone had somewhat of an understanding on the topic, and some had skills in fields others did not. Then the scene turned mainstream. You had the few not knowing anything getting all the help in the world from those "experts" (term used losely) knowing what others did not. And from there it just went down hill. Nowadays you have more people asking than you have "experts".

The other part of the problem is that no one wants to contribute to open source software or information. Those who know what they do won't release new and ingenious content because they do not get the respect or appreciation they deserve. And when something IS released, it's too advanced for the general population, and no one learns anything from it and uses it. What's the point of creating something no one will use?

Those are my $0.02

 

[efonius]

I wish we could get rid of the leeching culture and become more appreciative of the work of content creators and contributors. To quote the World of Warcraft loading screen: "When interacting with other players a little kindness goes a long way!"

 

[Tommy]

I wish we could get rid of the leeching culture and become more appreciative of the work of content creators and contributors. To quote the World of Warcraft loading screen: "When interacting with other players a little kindness goes a long way!"

Yeah, but sadly that quote isn't always right.

 

[DarkAngel]

It happened when people started to turn to TrinityCore. About the laziness, well, kids aren't taught well these days.

P.S: You never said the thread was going to be about WoW.

I am sorry, glad you moved it to the right section!

The problem is how people have been spoon fed. Back when the scene was "young" you had to learn shit yourself. Everyone had somewhat of an understanding on the topic, and some had skills in fields others did not. Then the scene turned mainstream. You had the few not knowing anything getting all the help in the world from those "experts" (term used losely) knowing what others did not. And from there it just went down hill. Nowadays you have more people asking than you have "experts".

The other part of the problem is that no one wants to contribute to open source software or information. Those who know what they do won't release new and ingenious content because they do not get the respect or appreciation they deserve. And when something IS released, it's too advanced for the general population, and no one learns anything from it and uses it. What's the point of creating something no one will use?

Those are my $0.02

I used to believe in spoonfeeding, why reinvent the wheel... Now I see, that giving people all the help in the world, is the same as doing it yourself - they will not learn from it, it just adds another one to the list of people who need your constant support. Now I am a firm believer in project orientated learning, people deal with their problems themselves, if they get stuck after trying they ask for help, to that one problem and tries again when the next arise.
Open source and monetization usually never adds up and thus it is hard to get dedicated developers and dedicated support for a project. I mean, personally I would rather pay 10 dollars for a commercial project, which I know that the company depends on to bring in the bread, than to use an open source one, which might lose support any second. I do however believe that open source software could possibly be the best software but like communism, it is a beautiful idea, though hard to accomplish in practise. (Not trying to turn this political)
Now this expert versus newbie cycle seems to be going to hell. I got no trouble with helping people, though helping lazy people always fills me with anger...

TLDR: I like your $0.02 and I appreciate the donation :tongue1:

I wish we could get rid of the leeching culture and become more appreciative of the work of content creators and contributors. To quote the World of Warcraft loading screen: "When interacting with other players a little kindness goes a long way!"

I am not scared of leechers, they will/have always be/been there, eating other people's work. However getting rid of them would be nice...

 

[Parranoia]

It's been made easily accessible so of course you will have people that expect everything to go as planned everytime.

 

[DarkAngel]

It's been made easily accessible so of course you will have people that expect everything to go as planned everytime.

And I would love if it did but it does not. Expecting that it will not go wrong, does not mean you cannot take fixing it into your own hands.

Just to stay in the topic of open source: it is not a commercial project and support is not required nor is doing every dirty task.
It is an open source project, which in some cases is used for commercial purposes, this of course means less fixes for everyone and competetion.
Now if people could understand that nobody is here for the sole purpose of making other people rich(eventhough that would be great) and that the competetion lies in having something which others do not. We could skip the lazy ass attitude and start respecting those who do help even more.

It seems, that when people are carried for to long, they expect never to walk again.

 

[slp13at420]

I blame the parents for the laziness. lol they don't teach there kids how to get down and dirty and have fun, and just learn. basic troubleshooting is part of the learning process. lol when I released ver.1 of GGW its was slow bulky and very nooobish but it worked,,, slowly but everything I said it could do it did just slowly lol got lotsa help to bring me up to date with todays languages and now I can add new features and such with ease and NO need to ask unless absolutely stuck. I come from the era of "basement programmers" . we didn't have the high-tech fancy thinga-mah-jigger the internet to turn to . nope just a pile of books, so we had to learn to troubleshoot or fail .

"print" the best tool in the toolbox.

oh yea for a = 1 to 2:next a:goto hell

 

[DarkAngel]

I blame the parents for the laziness. lol they don't teach there kids how to get down and dirty and have fun, and just learn. basic troubleshooting is part of the learning process. lol when I released ver.1 of GGW its was slow bulky and very nooobish but it worked,,, slowly but everything I said it could do it did just slowly lol got lotsa help to bring me up to date with todays languages and now I can add new features and such with ease and NO need to ask unless absolutely stuck. I come from the era of "basement programmers" . we didn't have the high-tech fancy thinga-mah-jigger the internet to turn to . nope just a pile of books, so we had to learn to troubleshoot or fail .

"print" the best tool in the toolbox.

oh yea for a = 1 to 2:next a:goto hell

Print <3
However the difference between your progress and the one I am talking about lies in the part where you actually created something yourself at first. Getting constructive criticism, others opinions and helpful additions is fine - look where it took you to.

 

[slp13at420]

Print <3
However the difference between your progress and the one I am talking about lies in the part where you actually created something yourself at first. Getting constructive criticism, others opinions and helpful additions is fine - look where it took you to.

yea its because I want to learn rather than have someone else breathe for me lol Im here to learn. Foe redid a bunch for efficiency and rochet showed me how to create and use tables and ideas from the community help me bunches . lol yea GGW has come a longggg wayyyy

Why not just put the Lua code on paste2 or something? That's what it is for.

Anyway, nice job if the script isn't ripped off from somewhere. Also, holy crap queries, wouldn't be so good for a populated server if you run multiple instances of this, doesn't look like it would be good in general. Meh, all a learning experience I guess.

1st post.

 

[frost]

i see it differently... people ask questions because they are not experts at everything.

i ask only when im stumped and cant figure something out for myself.

sadly due to the LACK or updated documentation(many cores don't provide)

people come to the sites with the most recent information. and beg help.

i see nothing wrong with helping a "NOOB" with some fundamentals.

if they don't catch on and don't start helping others u stop helping them.

if they whine and cry. you ignore them.

i myself came here with no info how to do anything but compile a core.

reading tommy's posts and looking at scripts has put me to a point where i can do things myself(somewhat) some things i still ask for help.


the main point is Some ppl are just starting to learn! give them a break. and a kitcat

 

[slp13at420]

I too sat for hours reading year old scripts and cross referencing the methods and testing then tryin to figure out how-to fix the errors lol and I learned the basics and I too agree that there are those that are here to learn n help.

but then there are those few that give almost no info and expect it to all be done for them...

 

[Rochet2]

/spoonfeed
Guess Im guilty : |

 

[slp13at420]

we all guilty of it

 

[frost]

/spoonfeed
Guess Im guilty : |

we all are at some point.
we pretty much get a FREE base(any core we use) to edit and extend. would be pretty messed up if everyone making a core
said ok you ppl make your own core... dont be lazy. then they locked up all the core repositories.

 

[dodger]

Just a quick word on the subject of shareing.
I'm new to this website and was only just shown a link to it by a friend who works as staff and partime dev on a pserver with me.

Allready, I have found help with the tutorials and videos on scripting ect. I started off knowing next to nothing apart from self taught computing knowledge. struggled through creating and fireing up my first server (trinity core ofc, however did you guess) even tho it was mostly all done for me there were problems I had to work thru by myself to get the thing to actually work.

I strongly believe in helping the few ppl I can help but my resources are few, I maintain the db's for our server so can help ppl with those kind of problems, but learning c++ and correcting core code faults are out of my league. Therefor, in that area I'm forced to ask for help. It's a good job the folk at emudevs.com believe in shareing. otherwise there would be a lotta dissapointed and struggling people out there

Our server runs on a Arkcore core which is kinda mangos/trinity/arkcore mix, very little documentation is provided other then the trinity side of things.

anyway, enough of all that. thanks to the OP for allowing my rant and to emudevs for just existing

 

[Vitrex]

Maybe some /necro
But idk guys how others, but i came to this this support a year ago and my knowledge was 0 i didn't knew how to compile server core what to talk about database install edits and hooh that was other universe for me back in those days, i get supported mainly by Jamey, Tommy, Faded, Rochet i asked so much and about everything, then i started to do "shit" on my local server, i changed Core X times fucked up databases more than X times, and now after year i almost stopped to ask questions in support section and trying to answer other people them, trying to give people information that i know, share the knowledge how mentioned people did it before.
And now i creating staff on my local without any big problems i mean of course it's not perfect, i get stuck in few places but i don't ask for code or for people to that for me, i'm looking for answer BY myself and then if i just give up and can't do that i ask this awesome support, since here no trolls like on other websites. i think blame all people that couple of them just "retarded" and wanna get free stuff for nothing (completed server as support) is a little bit not fair it's all depends on people.
The new generation sucks, but support forum like this can change all that shit to better side
How i told all depends on people and how community describe all emu staff to them.
If you come to forum where only repacks,scripts downloads , shared database but support section sucks what the result of people that will be long time in that support?
A : They become trolls
B : They overextends themselves and became dickheads
C : They will insist all staff be shared for free .
And what will be if people come to support like emudevs?
They will become like me, person who wanna learn always new things, say thanks for releases,shares but create all by themselves.
Best regards

 

[Tommy]

Just a quick word on the subject of shareing.
I'm new to this website and was only just shown a link to it by a friend who works as staff and partime dev on a pserver with me.

Allready, I have found help with the tutorials and videos on scripting ect. I started off knowing next to nothing apart from self taught computing knowledge. struggled through creating and fireing up my first server (trinity core ofc, however did you guess) even tho it was mostly all done for me there were problems I had to work thru by myself to get the thing to actually work.

I strongly believe in helping the few ppl I can help but my resources are few, I maintain the db's for our server so can help ppl with those kind of problems, but learning c++ and correcting core code faults are out of my league. Therefor, in that area I'm forced to ask for help. It's a good job the folk at emudevs.com believe in shareing. otherwise there would be a lotta dissapointed and struggling people out there

Our server runs on a Arkcore core which is kinda mangos/trinity/arkcore mix, very little documentation is provided other then the trinity side of things.

anyway, enough of all that. thanks to the OP for allowing my rant and to emudevs for just existing

We try our best! Appreciate the great words!

Maybe some /necro
But idk guys how others, but i came to this this support a year ago and my knowledge was 0 i didn't knew how to compile server core what to talk about database install edits and hooh that was other universe for me back in those days, i get supported mainly by Jamey, Tommy, Faded, Rochet i asked so much and about everything, then i started to do "shit" on my local server, i changed Core X times fucked up databases more than X times, and now after year i almost stopped to ask questions in support section and trying to answer other people them, trying to give people information that i know, share the knowledge how mentioned people did it before.
And now i creating staff on my local without any big problems i mean of course it's not perfect, i get stuck in few places but i don't ask for code or for people to that for me, i'm looking for answer BY myself and then if i just give up and can't do that i ask this awesome support, since here no trolls like on other websites. i think blame all people that couple of them just "retarded" and wanna get free stuff for nothing (completed server as support) is a little bit not fair it's all depends on people.
The new generation sucks, but support forum like this can change all that shit to better side
How i told all depends on people and how community describe all emu staff to them.
If you come to forum where only repacks,scripts downloads , shared database but support section sucks what the result of people that will be long time in that support?
A : They become trolls
B : They overextends themselves and became dickheads
C : They will insist all staff be shared for free .
And what will be if people come to support like emudevs?
They will become like me, person who wanna learn always new things, say thanks for releases,shares but create all by themselves.
Best regards

"necro" doesn't exist on EmuDevs. Post in any old conversational thread you want regardless of the thread age.

I never really gave my real opinion on this matter and I guess dodger and Vitrex did bring up some things that might can get me going.

Lack of documentation has been the most popular downside of all emulators and any 'new' project/other. Alongside of the 'lack of documentation' becomes 'lack of updated documentation/other', 'lack of commitment', 'lack of managing', and just pure laziness nowadays. I don't want to constantly bash TrinityCore every time a thread pops up, but that's their fault and they're honestly asking for it.

You have this popular emulator that is as they say "derived" from MaNGOS, which I'm assuming in 'other words' it is called "ripping, ripped", "knocked-off from" (etc) and I believe they have lack of managing and laziness. TrinityCore could be managed better to where their 'sql' folder won't contain X update files you need to search for just to get your worldserver going (this goes for authserver too). This is why I created EDB -- fast, practically no setup experience required, no more finding your update sqls because when we do update our users can easily run one sql file that contains all the updates. Updates are removed to have a clean project. The laziness feat is below where I explain, "people don't test anything" and TrinityCore even said that they don't test their commits which is a huge 'laziness' and 'commitment' alert for their users.

You can also look at Arctium and other emulators to see how 'lack of documentation' comes into place for their project source and tools sources. Nothing is even written down to help people start with their emulator via WOD (Warlords of Draenor).

As I mentioned, "pure laziness"; Almost everyone steals from each other, don't test anything, they want someone to do things for them and I can bring up more points but I won't. As Foereaper said in this thread:

The problem is how people have been spoon fed. Back when the scene was "young" you had to learn shit yourself. Everyone had somewhat of an understanding on the topic, and some had skills in fields others did not. Then the scene turned mainstream. You had the few not knowing anything getting all the help in the world from those "experts" (term used losely) knowing what others did not. And from there it just went down hill. Nowadays you have more people asking than you have "experts".

The other part of the problem is that no one wants to contribute to open source software or information. Those who know what they do won't release new and ingenious content because they do not get the respect or appreciation they deserve. And when something IS released, it's too advanced for the general population, and no one learns anything from it and uses it. What's the point of creating something no one will use?

Those are my $0.02

This is very true.

To be honest, this thread shouldn't really pertain to server owners but the players too. Someone can have a beautiful server with unique content and it can be ignored by players going to a server with no unique content & no scripts tied to any mobs, and players will play that more than a great server. I don't get players. That may have changed over the years since everyone has gotten into map/dbc editing, but who knows.

Committing or Dedication is something I 'somewhat' have but if I set my mind to something I can create some awesome things. A lot of people start projects up and quit in less than a week and if you hire people nowadays they will work for you for a week and eventually disappear without notice (happens a lot to me and Faded).

I think the majority of Server owners are mainly around the age of 13~20+ without any knowledge of what they are doing at all. Back in 2008-2010 was the best time(s) for when I witnessed great creations, motivation, dedication, commitment, and not one sign of anyone being lazy. That changed over the years and I'm afraid it is just getting worse.

We encourage our members to act like they are in those golden days here on ED.

 

[Neccta]

I've gotta agree with all of the posts on here. I remember a long time ago it was very hard to figure out how to get everything setup, but in the end it was all worth it. Plus it felt more like a community you were all helping each other and in turn you helped others. I feel like the community as a whole started to go sour way back with Ascent.

Burlex was the leader of Ascent and was also a programmer for WoW-Scape. When 2.4.3 came out he released the new Ascent core only to WoW-Scape because of some issues with the community. This of course upset the community more and lead to Burlex leaving Ascent and only coding for WoW-Scape, and we all know what happened to them.
Anyway, Ascent turned into Open Ascent then turned into Arc-Emu. Meanwhile Mangos was doing its own thing, but some people thought that the developers were not implementing community fixes in fast enough so a few guys created TrinityCore.

So thats my Emulation History 101. The community seemed to change from, "Lets learn together, to help our self's and others" to "Tell me how to do it, thanks bye."